Comments on: The state of the REALbasic community http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/ Software Development Using REAL Studio Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:33:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: REALbasic, Valentina and 2010 @ Valentina Dev Log http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-135 REALbasic, Valentina and 2010 @ Valentina Dev Log Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:37:40 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-135 [...] and manages the Association of REALbasic Professionals, and he’s concerned about the state of REALbasic. Christian over at Pariah Software also has some concerns as well. They both lament the poor third [...] [...] and manages the Association of REALbasic Professionals, and he’s concerned about the state of REALbasic. Christian over at Pariah Software also has some concerns as well. They both lament the poor third [...]

]]> By: lynnfredricks.com / REALbasic, Valentina and 2010 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-134 lynnfredricks.com / REALbasic, Valentina and 2010 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:32:00 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-134 [...] and manages the Association of REALbasic Professionals, and he’s concerned about the state of REALbasic. Christian over at Pariah Software also has some concerns as well. They both lament the poor third [...] [...] and manages the Association of REALbasic Professionals, and he’s concerned about the state of REALbasic. Christian over at Pariah Software also has some concerns as well. They both lament the poor third [...]

]]> By: Dr. Scott Steinman http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-129 Dr. Scott Steinman Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:27:57 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-129 @Bob I agree, but it was still very disheartening to see so few volunteers. REALbasic desperately needs a strong open-source community and third-party developers to win over developers currently using development systems like Visual Basic that have a wealth of code and tools available. @Bob
I agree, but it was still very disheartening to see so few volunteers. REALbasic desperately needs a strong open-source community and third-party developers to win over developers currently using development systems like Visual Basic that have a wealth of code and tools available.

]]> By: Bob Keeney http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-128 Bob Keeney Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:50:34 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-128 <a href="#comment-124" rel="nofollow">@Dr. Scott Steinman </a> As one of those few volunteers the REAL (pun intended) killer of that project was REALbasic itself. It just didn't have enough exposed to advance the tool to the point where you wanted it to go. We tried and came up with our hit list of stumbling blocks and presented them to RS, what, two years ago? AFAIK, nothing has changed in the list since then. @Dr. Scott Steinman
As one of those few volunteers the REAL (pun intended) killer of that project was REALbasic itself. It just didn’t have enough exposed to advance the tool to the point where you wanted it to go. We tried and came up with our hit list of stumbling blocks and presented them to RS, what, two years ago? AFAIK, nothing has changed in the list since then.

]]> By: Bob Keeney http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-127 Bob Keeney Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:47:19 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-127 <a href="#comment-123" rel="nofollow">@S-Copinger </a> I wouldn't joke like that. Scotland sounds like a fabulous place to hold a conference! @S-Copinger
I wouldn’t joke like that. Scotland sounds like a fabulous place to hold a conference!

]]> By: Bob Keeney http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-126 Bob Keeney Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:46:29 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-126 One question that comes to mind is whether it's the apathy of the community or the types of people that come into the community? It doesn't seem like much of a difference at first blush but I think the RAD nature, and the BASIC language of RB tends to attract more hobbyists. I suspect that most VB6 users were generally apathetic towards the language and most just wanted to sponge off the VB6 communities like Planet Source Code and the like. The only difference being with RB there were many more millions of VB6 developers out there. Another issue is that VB6 had a ton of highly educated enterprise level developers that came up solutions to their problems and posted them online. RB's toolset doesn't fit real well in the enterprise at the present time. One question that comes to mind is whether it’s the apathy of the community or the types of people that come into the community? It doesn’t seem like much of a difference at first blush but I think the RAD nature, and the BASIC language of RB tends to attract more hobbyists.

I suspect that most VB6 users were generally apathetic towards the language and most just wanted to sponge off the VB6 communities like Planet Source Code and the like. The only difference being with RB there were many more millions of VB6 developers out there.

Another issue is that VB6 had a ton of highly educated enterprise level developers that came up solutions to their problems and posted them online. RB’s toolset doesn’t fit real well in the enterprise at the present time.

]]> By: Dr. Scott Steinman http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-124 Dr. Scott Steinman Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:15:33 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-124 I'm about as frustrated as Christian. In my own profession, I made 70 educational applications written in RB available at no cost to fellow educators. In the RB community, I've lectured at Real World and written articles. I'm on the ARBP board and do as much as my other commitments in my own profession and my health permit. But what bothers me the most is that I found very few volunteers to help when I open-sourced a project that would have provided a much-needed professional tool to the RB community. Out of the "thousands and thousands" of RB programmers, only a handful of volunteers?? Most people just said "I want to use it when it's done". In my opinion, the RB community is not as cohesive or as motivated to succeed by working together as I've seen in the other programming language communities in which I've belonged. I’m about as frustrated as Christian. In my own profession, I made 70 educational applications written in RB available at no cost to fellow educators. In the RB community, I’ve lectured at Real World and written articles. I’m on the ARBP board and do as much as my other commitments in my own profession and my health permit.

But what bothers me the most is that I found very few volunteers to help when I open-sourced a project that would have provided a much-needed professional tool to the RB community. Out of the “thousands and thousands” of RB programmers, only a handful of volunteers?? Most people just said “I want to use it when it’s done”.

In my opinion, the RB community is not as cohesive or as motivated to succeed by working together as I’ve seen in the other programming language communities in which I’ve belonged.

]]> By: S-Copinger http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2009/10/the-state-of-the-realbasic-community/comment-page-1/#comment-123 S-Copinger Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:57:52 +0000 http://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/?p=506#comment-123 Considering previous discussions of how to create a graduated progression of "training material" on the ARBP site it is ironic that someone is complaining it is all "beginner level" - also notable as you can Christian mention that they did not offer to put forward any advanced material to educate us all. I suspect the Board are getting somewhat fed up of negative criticism without useful feedback of what members/prospective members actually want, let alone the lack of volunteers. However, that may follow on simply from how accessible and easy to use RB actually is; as with all Basic dialects (and most RAD environments) it attracts those who want instant results which includes those who want (a) instant kudos as a brilliant programmer without necessarily producing anything to justify that, and (b)professional quality source code for free that they can stick their name on and sell without any real effort on their part. Following on from the end of Christian's post, RS make a product, it is up to RB Users to create a community; whether the naysayers and freeloaders are supported, tolerated, combatted or ignored by the ones who are actually working with RB is a decision that the balance of the community will need to evolve an answer to. As to more articles and code samples, I'm working on it, but you don't want shoddy amateur stuff do you ;-) And I'll volunteer to help with the next ARBP conference if you will hold it in Scotland :razz: Considering previous discussions of how to create a graduated progression of “training material” on the ARBP site it is ironic that someone is complaining it is all “beginner level” – also notable as you can Christian mention that they did not offer to put forward any advanced material to educate us all.

I suspect the Board are getting somewhat fed up of negative criticism without useful feedback of what members/prospective members actually want, let alone the lack of volunteers. However, that may follow on simply from how accessible and easy to use RB actually is; as with all Basic dialects (and most RAD environments) it attracts those who want instant results which includes those who want (a) instant kudos as a brilliant programmer without necessarily producing anything to justify that, and (b)professional quality source code for free that they can stick their name on and sell without any real effort on their part.

Following on from the end of Christian’s post, RS make a product, it is up to RB Users to create a community; whether the naysayers and freeloaders are supported, tolerated, combatted or ignored by the ones who are actually working with RB is a decision that the balance of the community will need to evolve an answer to.

As to more articles and code samples, I’m working on it, but you don’t want shoddy amateur stuff do you ;-) And I’ll volunteer to help with the next ARBP conference if you will hold it in Scotland :razz:

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